global warming

寒江雪

The earth is like a ship sailing in the universe, and all human beings are passengers on borad. Due to emission by industrialization and other human activities, our earth is being plagued by green house effect, which leads to gloabal warming. As a result, significant changes are taking place around the globe, creating disasters to our environment, warmer winter, more flooding in some places while serious drought elsewhere. We really need to join hands and do something to reverse such a trend. Anyway, the earth is a ship we cannot abandon. So it is important that we make friend with the earth.

) p/ w! G, B; K" L: C) ~[ 本帖最后由 寒江雪 于 2008-1-10 20:58 编辑 ]

Tianwen

Be a vegetarian!
& x  e5 |6 `8 A  \0 i: ghttp://www.suprememastertv.com/webtv/

★棍辊☆ホひ

if i do and other ppl won't, is still going to happen

寒江雪

原帖由 Tianwen 于 2008-1-12 12:07 发表
Be a vegetarian!
* }# e6 K( X9 O# f8 S7 ?http://www.suprememastertv.com/webtv/

We can also use public transport more than private cars, and if we have to drive, we should try not to overspeed. Overspeeding can not only cause traffic accidents, but also inrease vehicular emission.

寒江雪

原帖由 ★棍辊☆ホひ 于 2008-1-12 15:45 发表
if i do and other ppl won't, is still going to happen

# i8 o' Q  j4 [% F6 u8 h# xThe power of individual is very limited. That is why concerted action is important.

竹帘儿

原帖由 ★棍辊☆ホひ 于 2008-1-12 15:45 发表
if i do and other ppl won't, is still going to happen

start by doing it yourself, that's the only thing you can control and that's the true freedom, do things because it's the right thing to do  but not because other people are(or aren't) doing it.

竹帘儿

原帖由 Tianwen 于 2008-1-12 12:07 发表
/ I/ }+ G6 z3 F+ V2 r/ t: q5 `) w( LBe a vegetarian!
' z5 N/ z$ |& d& F$ Q: a& e4 y5 \* ihttp://www.suprememastertv.com/webtv/

8 c1 ~& ?8 V- f" C' I. J8 {% NI didnt check the link, but I happened to know that energy spent to produce 1 kg  pork = gas consumed on 200km by a sedan. that's quite shocking for me.
I don't want to be a vegetarian, it,s against my human nature, but i will definitely take the above fact into consideration and try to consume less meat: that’s actually my hubby’s new year resolution.

OliveOil

I am not denying the globe is warming up... but does it really have anything to do with human beings? I know that the warming and ice age of the earth goes in circles, with or without human beings' existence. I know that the whole solar system now is warming up...because human beings’ satellites warm all the other planets there????
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Maybe some individuals consume less meat and less gas appear to help in some way, but it probably helps more if less human being are created,  of less  life span is promoted. So if you have a plan to have 3 kids, have 2, if you like to live for 80 year, give up the medication that consume tens of thousands of more energy in factories than meat or gas to just keep you living longer, but just live for 70… wouldn’t those be better resolutions?

4 K3 W2 P4 g! H) [Another resolution is taking down the nuclear power plants, which is absolutely direct energy saving. Everyone needs to prepare enough candles to warm and light up their huge houses though.
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* ^! f) [& z; y2 l; v2 |; pOh by the way, have you guys seen the life style of those who are strongly spreading the word out there about global warming and saying the average person should do something?
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, \: Q3 h8 ~% h/ X. [Let’s take the big winner Al Gore for instance. Look at Al Gore’s vehicles and personal jet and think how many pounds of meat that how many people tried not to eat. Can this even out the consumption from his trips to his claimed 1000 cities to lecture to receive the Nobel Price? His plane alone consumed over 81,890 gallons of high carbon fuels. His Cadillac Escalade that he uses gets a wonderful 13 miles per gallon. Yet he asks you to consume less so that he can live his lifestyle. He further talks about buying carbon offsets. This has two flaws. One, it is like me killing someone and then having a baby. There is still damage. Second, can the average person who is not charging hundreds of thousands of dollars for each lecture afford to buy these? No, we must do without. I have to wonder, is his ultimate goal to preserve the precious fuels available for himself and others like him?

! g) d+ l- F% T/ I6 {3 `- S5 rIf you want to be fooled, by thinking you might be contributing to cooling down the earth, well, I will be eating beef and pork … and wait.

OliveOil

Wake up. And learn some real SCIENCE and true FACTs!

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

[ 本帖最后由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-13 11:51 编辑 ]

寒江雪

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-13 11:49 发表
Wake up. And learn some real SCIENCE and true FACTs!
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0 G2 L% a9 e$ K! p" {http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

% y' z9 H, B* L8 d, U- {( CThe link is not available here in China unfortunately. With or without human activities, the earth is on continuous change since it is also prone to impact from the universe. But it is without doubt that human being are playing a significant role in shaping our planet. Like it or not, the green house effect has caused obvious changes to the earth and disasters to human life. It is reported by BBC that one third of China has been turned into desert and some cities in the north might run out of water in a couple of years. Al Gore won noble peace prize for 2007 for his contribution to environmental preservation. He might be the person whose words and deeds are not so much in consistence and that could be the characteristics of any potiltian. But his notion about environmental protection does make sense.

$ {9 c& @- Q3 k; JThe question is whether everyone is willing to act consciously to be environmentally friendly. I have to agree that it is basically unrealistic to do so due to deep rooted selfishness and individual greed of most people. Anyway, man is born to be with sins. It does not matter so much if we make mistakes. What matters more is that we should learn from our mistakes and correct our wrong doings. The future is unknown, but tomorrow will still be a new day, good or bad.
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, H$ Y4 T4 `2 n" s, Q[ 本帖最后由 寒江雪 于 2008-1-13 20:39 编辑 ]

OliveOil

原帖由 寒江雪 于 2008-1-13 20:36 发表
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The link is not available here in China unfortunately. With or without human activities, the earth is on continuous change since it is also prone to impact from the universe. But it is without doubt ...

without doubt, base?

( _" R3 z/ ?: N( @, s; Wgreenhouse effect, how can this be sure without further proof of the facts?

三思

原帖由 寒江雪 于 2008-1-13 20:36 发表
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The link is not available here in China unfortunately. With or without human activities, the earth is on continuous change since it is also prone to impact from the universe. But it is without doubt ...

Exactly! Well said!

寒江雪

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-14 19:26 发表


  J4 R. ^" @# ?without doubt, base?
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greenhouse effect, how can this be sure without further proof of the facts?

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It is not difficult, I am afraid, to find further proof by using google for better understanding of greenhouse effect. There could be more feed back than you imagined.

# r1 T, E% {7 [* n# \# O[ 本帖最后由 寒江雪 于 2008-1-15 18:34 编辑 ]

寒江雪

原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-14 19:45 发表

, e# b# c; N; p: i! VExactly! Well said!

* ^. n1 C. B; ]Environment is a concern that we all share.

三思

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-13 11:47 发表
7 {) X- q2 f3 o) R) yI am not denying the globe is warming up... but does it really have anything to do with human beings? I know that the warming and ice age of the earth goes in circles, with or without human beings' ex ...

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the ultimate purpose of all animals or creatures, i believe, is to survive and to reproduce. Ppl might not be the major cause of the global warming, but our survival depands on our environment. We need to do our part to delay it until we learn how to do better to intervene the universe.
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Your example of "not having kids" is going to extreme and put behind of our ultimate purpose of life. Ofcourse we want to and need to enjoy our lives, but we can balance our behavours and lifestyles with our environmental responsibilites. Being aware of environmental responsibilities doesn't mean we are going to walk or swim to China to save gallons of gas, it means maybe we can walk or bike to nearby store if we are not carrying an urgent errand.
3)
If you are counting on the "further proof", we can't even be certain about the shape of the earth, afterall, we might be only the pets of some kinda higher creatures. All we can do is to take action based on the latest scientific findings. Believing in science means believing in the development of science, and change our behaviours accordingly.

5 ^& S% a& L2 s3 v4 S( ][ 本帖最后由 三思 于 2008-1-15 19:54 编辑 ]

三思

原帖由 ★棍辊☆ホひ 于 2008-1-12 15:45 发表
if i do and other ppl won't, is still going to happen

If everybody thinks this way, we are doomed!

OliveOil

原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-15 19:52 发表

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the ultimate purpose of all animals or creatures, i believe, is to survive and to reproduce. Ppl might not be the major cause of the global warming, but our survival depands on our environment. ...

To keep the balance of nature and care about the environment are common sense and everyone should do from all aspects that an individual can. And believe me, I am doing whatever I can as well, other than not giving up meat   AND I don't say if no one else is doing it, I ain't either. I do what I believe is  right, no matter what Gore said or damaged  
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However I can't stop questioning some people's rational behind it. We should do whatever we can for the good and common sense and known scientific results, to save energy, to love animals, to reserve more natural resources... but there is no need to claim we did harm to something we are not even sure and have to do something for that unknown reason...
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1 P/ v6 B7 c! {0 ETo have fewer kids, to live less, to give up electricity, are obviously not solutions and definitely not my opinion. I use it just for sarcastic comparisons to some opinions that are equally unnecessary.

" ]0 ]/ O% J- G: H% f3 B# q: V  i[ 本帖最后由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-16 08:34 编辑 ]

竹帘儿

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-16 08:18 发表
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" w0 K0 R7 c& m5 u5 t' I+ l4 p! uTo keep the balance of nature and care about the environment are common sense and everyone should do from all aspects that an individual can. And believe me, I am doing whatever I can as well, oth ...

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Say that Mr. E has lung cancer, 800 world top notch specialists told him that if you don't quit smoking, there is a 65% chance that you will die in 1 year; then 20 family doctors say, no, there is no 100% proof that smoking is bad for your health, it might or might not hurt you. These specialists’ statement is backed by rigorous scientific research and reviewed by other hundreds and thousands of scientists in the world.  If you were Mr. E, where would you put your money? For this global warming debate, we, humans are pretty much in the same shoes as Mr. E. I chose to believe those 800 world top specialists, you, obviously chose to believe the 20 family doctors. That’s fine. But, please, don’t say the former ones are fooled and only you and your family docs know the real truth and facts.

( |. E- k& L* N* n2 B' u3 hI will take measures to help myself quit smoking, you can continue to question and wait. Good luck.

p.s here is some more rigourous reading about global warming.  
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessmen ... /ar4_syr_topic2.pdf
This report states that human influences have more likely than not contributed to global climate change.
& J) m% X/ w. q# B8 uThe report is from IPCC, a Nobel Prize rewarded scientific intergovernmental organization that is set up by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).It assesses  latest scientific, technical and socio-economic literature produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of the risk of human-induced climate change. It has high scientific and technical standards, and aim to  provide the decision-makers and others interested in climate change with an objective source of information about climate change.

十字街

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-13 11:47 发表
I am not denying the globe is warming up... but does it really have anything to do with human beings? I know that the warming and ice age of the earth goes in circles, with or without human beings' ex ...

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Green house effect is at most just a hypothesis, one of the millions of theories projected to explain the global warming we are experiencing. I just don't believe human could possibly change the environment to that extent. The fact that some environment activists are blaming industrialization and our life style for global warming reminds me of that grandma's saying: if you don't behave yourself, God will punish you. Since everybody must have a grandma, it is not surprising that some people subconsciously prefer those doctrines they  acquired in cradle to scientific research.

三思

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-16 08:18 发表

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To keep the balance of nature and care about the environment are common sense and everyone should do from all aspects that an individual can. And believe me, I am doing whatever I can as well, oth ...

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I see where you stand now. For what I understand, you are just having a beef with Gore and the theory he is promoting. So...

1) About Gore
7 i4 _0 n  S, \/ t) mI don't give too much shit about what Gore drives and how his lifestyle is. He is just a salesman in my view. And shame on him if he failed to commit himself on what he claimed to believe. I go with the authorities and my own conscious.
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2)About the theory
- a6 X* n  z* S; F& eI have heard some global warming controversies and they got heated up after Gore won Nobel.  But being laypersons of science as ourselves, we don't need to choose sides. To be frank, we might be able to do some weigh-ups on these theories, but I don't think we are capable to give the verdicts, or are you? Again, I go with the authorities and my own conscious.

- Z+ x5 l0 E% J3 M7 `I might be fooled, but I am a fool for a good cause and I do no harm. Or you might be a smart(A**--teasing), but you are playing with risks.

Lazycat

That's a really big topic!

眉心眉飞

原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-17 10:02 发表
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I see where you stand now. For what I understand, you are just having a beef with Gore and the theory he is promoting. So...

1) About Gore
I don't give too much shit about what Gore drives and how his lifestyle is. He is just a salesman in my view. And shame on him if he failed to commit himself on what he claimed to believe. I go with the authorities and my own conscious.
& W; J+ T7 v/ g2)About the theory!
1 A' v* X5 g- ZI have heard some global warming controversies and they got heated up after Gore won Nobel.  But being laypersons of science as ourselves, we don't need to choose sides. To be frank, we might be able to do some weigh-ups on these theories, but I don't think we are capable to give the verdicts, or are you? Again, I go with the authorities and my own conscious.

1 O$ R8 A; Q" K& k纠个小错啊, 这里用做名词应该用conscience. conscious是形容词. 接着辩. 偶退下.

三思

原帖由 老饿 于 2008-1-17 16:03 发表


纠个小错啊, 这里用做名词应该用conscience. conscious是形容词. 接着辩. 偶退下.

! y0 r: \" T* r, v; _: P  o. E; _严重感谢！终于逮到你了！有最高指示，快来领纸

balubalu

start using green power......

OliveOil

原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-17 10:02 发表
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I see where you stand now. For what I understand, you are just having a beef with Gore and the theory he is promoting. So...

! p1 g2 D  P& {5 ^9 U% L$ B1) About Gore
I don't give too much shit about what Gore drives and ...

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; o% p' g) h6 t0 N) Q2 YNow I am confused about your comment about me. I said I would go with whatever is right--meaning my conscions, and make whatever efforts I can to do good to the earth...except for giving up meat...AND I am NOT on the side of Gore, who in my eyes is like a clown...
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5 ^; q* J8 f0 a6 YWhat are you and 竹帘儿 talking about? I didn't do anything wrong. I just don't believe human's action is the sole contribute to global warming...

+ B  E# J5 d6 m* @: XI feel like I got beaten up for nothing  
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I will say it again: I am a firm believer that any human being should love the nature and should not destroy the enviroment... I am actively doing my part to save, to care ... But I don't believe global warming was completely caused by human beings, which is what Gore and some people claims....
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Sorry about my lousy english.

OliveOil

原帖由 竹帘儿 于 2008-1-16 23:13 发表
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Say that Mr. E has lung cancer, 800 world top notch specialists told him that if you don't quit smoking, there is a 65% chance that you will die in 1 year; then 20 family doctors say, no, there is ...

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Have you read through what I posted? Did I say I wouldn't do anything? Did you just feel attack needed only because I replied to 34 and APPEARED to oppose what she believs?

! Z, ^" k: B/ b" pThe only thing I didn't agree with LZ was the REASON and some of the ARGUEMENT. I QUESTION the reason LZ and people like Gore claimed for "global warning" but I SUPPORT the action for engergy saving etc, just for different reason. You still think your "Mr E" example still applies?

三思

原帖由 OliveOil 于 2008-1-17 17:26 发表


Now I am confused about your comment about me. I said I would go with whatever is right--meaning my conscions, and make whatever efforts I can to do good to the earth...except for giving up meat.. ...

that made two of us! haha....  ok, i will sort it out.

- F+ a. Q2 m( p  T6 |I understood you are not on Gore's side(have a beef= have trouble), I also understood you support any other environmental actions other than the global warming's. But what i have battling here was:  The reasons that you don't support global-warming-good-deeds are not valid. I concluded your reasons as below:
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Your reason 1): Gore is not doing his part, therefore his theory is void.
my argument: This is a reasonning fallacy. more in my previous post 20, point (1)
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原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-17 10:02 发表
1) About Gore
I don't give too much shit about what Gore drives and how his lifestyle is. He is just a salesman in my view. And shame on him if he failed to commit himself on what he claimed to believe. I go with the authorities and my own conscious.

0 c6 f1 ~  L- d  N2 d# ?' fYour reason 2) There are controvalsies on this theory, and you decide to stand by the critics.
My argument: as in my previous post in 20, point (2)
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原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-17 10:02 发表
2)About the theory
I have heard some global warming controversies and they got heated up after Gore won Nobel.  But being laypersons of science as ourselves, we don't need to choose sides. To be frank, we might be able to do some weigh-ups on these theories, but I don't think we are capable to give the verdicts, or are you? Again, I go with the authorities and my own conscious.

3 V2 B9 I3 |$ k9 {( c% u; m" DOther than that, we are cool. In the real world, i will kiss you up,ok?

[ 本帖最后由 三思 于 2008-1-17 18:34 编辑 ]

贾星星

原帖由 三思 于 2008-1-14 19:45 发表

) E: F8 d" H. g- L5 z( c! }Exactly! Well said!

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3 C$ h3 m5 j! W$ a( @0 Q1 z7 ^/ Y说的好就是  well said ? 有点子 Chinglish.

三思

原帖由 luckibird2 于 2008-1-17 21:02 发表
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说的好就是  well said ? 有点子 Chinglish.

look it up before bring it up

竹帘儿

原帖由 balubalu 于 2008-1-17 16:43 发表
start using green power......

: a! W3 U1 ?% @3 D3 |
right. I know that Epcore now sells windpower to households, since we are renting a house and the utilities are included, we are not that informed of how it works. We suggested our landlord to switch the house to windpower and proposed we would pay the difference, but he is just not convinced that you can actually differenciate between coal produced power and green power
  Q1 ?0 s, h2 [7 `. sdo you know anything about it