Are we sure we want to improve English?

BOFA

It is glad to see the passion shown by many members here in posting or pasting some postings. However,  Ｉreally doubt that this will actually help improve our English, excuse my personal opinion. I believe there are many who are really excellent in reading or even in writing, but still mumbling when forced to speak. This, as we all know, is a major barrier to the potential opportunities available to us.
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( G+ k% S6 q# @4 r$ \0 }5 KI am planning to get people together at some places and talk in English, probably once or twice a week. Also we may have topics (pending, upon discussion and decision) scheduled and force us to prepare and present on stage. However, there are also some basic things to do, e.g. to correct pronunciation, clarity, speed, volume, and enunciation. It is a long way, but without any effort we are guaranteed to fail, anyway.

Any one interested in this, please leave message.

FuzzyBear

It's not a good idea to get Chinese together to talk in English. Sooner or later you will find you are actually talking in Chinese.

august99

I am not interested at all. I found my problem is basically the pronouiation and the intonation. Chinese people could not help me at all.

But I do agree with you. It seems lots of people are interested in improving english but actually we could not see that much positive here at all. Most postings were in chinese-english, and the left  were copied and pasted from somewhere. They can help, but just a little, and atually negligible.
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9 e: f0 D1 P6 ~8 w+ KI mean, those who have good english do not need to be here, and those who do not, should not be here: they should be in school and doing home work, not searching internet, especially in a chinese forum. WHere is your time coming from? I doubt it. When I studied english, I even could not find time to eat my lunch. I had no time to cook, no time to go to the supermarket and no time to chat with my friend. Two girl freinds left me just because I did not talk to them that much. Well, you want ot get something, you need to pay for it. No free lunch at all.
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$ n' l1 ]# ~+ B( h% r& NI suggest to take a public speech course somewhere and my friends did refered me two good ones. I just did not have time to go there, see, I even did not have time to study english,LOL. If you guys are interested, we can go together.
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$ P' H0 b4 g0 ]0 W& p/ ~, aGood luk

suel

Could you provide some information on the public speech  course with good reputation?

august99

well, it is a college. It is good one and my friends took and improved a lot.
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+ C% _: S6 q! C0 c7 JBTW, somebody said the majority of chinese could not speak(but can write and read)english very well and that is the problem comes from. I do not agree at all. Do believe me the biggest challenging is the reading and writing, especially writing. I met so many canadians, for sure they speek perfect english, but worked as labours. They could not write very well at all.
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3 ]& V: M  q) p1 h& h7 B, Hyou said that just because you overcame the writing and reading problems already and are facing to improve oral english to the local level,or at least acceptable to locals. That is also my goal recently.

BOFA

Thanks for your valuable input on this. Yes, I agree with you and I have done the basics, e.g attending pronunciation and speech classes, which are so great and helpful. However, as we all know that the road ahead us is still so long and we can't just stop there. I see myself speaking fluent and clear English as the nature of my job is constant communication  orally and in writing. and it is exactly for this reason i still see the big room left to be improved and i know what areas to be.
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I do agree that those who haven't done the basics go. My intention here is to further improve the way we think in English, not only Chinese being together, we will try to brings some native speakers, not only to improve English but to make friends as well.

Public speech is the highest level of language skills that even natives are not able to master. However, for those who are interested in, they could go join the Toaster Master Club, which is available for everyone in the School of Business at the U of A, and at Grant MacEwan College. but I am not willing to recommend those who haven't do your homework go.
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5 e  _# B6 E; T( w( X5 R- mFor sure there are too many issues to be addressed, but for those who already have no problem in understanding and expressing yourself in daily life or at workplace, I recommend a book titled ENGLISH IDOMS, SAINGS & SLANGS published in Magnuson, available at the U of A bookstore is a great one to get and read.

Still, if my intention is of anyone's interest, we can come together and brainstorm ways....................

Matrix

My point of view with this issue is that you don't need to spend time and effort purposely in order to improve your English. I mean the conversation.  Everyday we are surrounded by the authentic language. You can talk to a stranger on your way to Tim Horton, chat on bus, or gossip with female friends. I believe there are tons of chances to practice it. For some  reasons, I had even to avoid those Canadians, women in particular, for they don't know where and when to stop. My good lord !

By the way, good luck with your progress in this regard.

' o7 y! u3 D& Y) ?. j[ 本帖最后由 Matrix 于 2008-7-27 00:44 编辑 ]

august99

原帖由 BOFA 于 2008-7-26 23:00 发表
Thanks for your valuable input on this. Yes, I agree with you and I have done the basics, e.g attending pronunciation and speech classes, which are so great and helpful. However, as we all know that t ...

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# J  m, J) M* a# q, u& ?If so, Please count me in...thanks.

august99

原帖由 Matrix 于 2008-7-27 00:39 发表
My point of view with this issue is that you don't need to spend time and effort purposely in order to improve your English. I mean the conversation.  Everyday we are surrounded by the authentic langu ...

Sorry, I do not really agree with you. In the past year, I seldom used chinese, but still, I feel my oral english is my biggest challenging now, Sometimes I feel so frustrated. Talking with westeners could not ensure to improve your english. You make a mistake and repeat it 100 times, does not mean you will be correct at your 101 repetition.

BOFA

Matrix made a good point here and I agree that we should take every chance to chat with native speakers. However, it is an undeniable fact that those conversations normally, as I have tried and experienced, are short and simple, and not enough to actually improve to certain level.
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August99 made another major and factual point here that most of us are facing, and need to be addressed. Same as he/she, I have been speaking English at workplace and in my daily life for 8 years,and I　consider my English fluent enough and expression conventional enough to have a comfortable conversation with native speakers, but still feel barriers or incapables of having an impressive and satisfying speech when it comes to public speech with FINE  English commands that native speakers would normally used and do. Being fluent in daily life is great, but I believe is not enough if we really want to progress towards capability that would benefit our professional life (career) and personal growth (socializing or enjoyment.
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+ M, \  d- B$ T2 F9 c3 c" r( {) BMy goals, and many else would also have, are to continue to create opportunities and forced us to improve by challenging ourselves, through gathering and/structured activities, like Toast Master is doing, e.g. casual chatting, planned topics, new words learning, and new expression sharing. etc. I anticipate it to be fun and a positive experience for us. I　believe group interaction would be one of the most productive ways.

august99

Well. WHen I came here, I thought it may take me 6 months to solve my language problem, then, I changed my mmind and believed it may as long as 2-3 years and then 5-6 years and now I believe it may take more than 10 years hard work to overcome my language barriers.

You solve a problem you will find another. Lauguage is challenging, the cultural differnce is even worse. When I went to restanrants with my friends, usually I asked them to help me to order becaus I have no idea which food I would like to eat at all. I even do not know ehich kind of salad dressings I like. My lord, I use soy sause to make salad.
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5 |! N/ E( A4 ]. d4 P/ k! A: s; ^One day, I girl talked to me and mentioned something like she was like the Sintorina. I was lost and another girl reminded me :' you do not koe Sintorina and her glass shoes?" Now I realized that story|. Every chinese people knows GREY GIRL AND HER CRYSTAL SHOES, but who knows "grey Girl" is called Sintorina? Even a well know , story I still got lost.
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I went to U of A and played games with several student. They made a glass of drink for me with mint , alcohol and soda and so on. I like it but it is my first time to drink those kind of beverage. I also was very queit in the games because so many things they mentioned were based on their culture and life experiences, some even charatcers of childhood cartoons and stories.
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6 F5 m+ [- C( ~. A I am wondering if I can really be a real canadian at all...

BOFA

Two plan to join in

2 r. o* u- Y3 r* o! _! SSo far two planned to join in and form the group. More people are welcome.
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A public but quiet place for our gathering is needed. Not sure anyone has better suggestion, I think the Second Cup coffee at the northeast corner of 159 St. and 87 Ave is a great one. As to day and time, how about every Friday 8PM.
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$ q% W- s% S% w3 P( fAny idea of a better place and time is welcome.
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3 C" K7 W6 d+ Z4 ILet us roll up sleeves and hit on it immediately, before we change our mind and drag our .......

BOFA

原帖由 august99 于 2008-7-27 12:10 发表
- V$ j* |7 d% L8 d* a, z# jWell. WHen I came here, I thought it may take me 6 months to solve my language problem, then, I changed my mmind and believed it may as long as 2-3 years and then 5-6 years and now I believe it may ta ...

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August99 has brought up an issue, the cultural gap, also called "cultural shock". I agree with him/her, as this is the ceiling I am hitting that stops me from getting to a higher level.
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To help our understanding of it, culture, according to some interpretations, is the:
  1. concepts by which a given society interprets its world
  2. beliefs by which a society organizes concepts into rational schemes
7 s+ ]! b+ x# m* j( V! F  3. values by which a society set its goals and judges its actions
  4. patterns of behavior and the ideas behind them.
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No doubt, Edward Hall in his book "The Silent Language" says "culture hides much more than it reveals..." and no doubt that we may understand the meaning of the sentence, literally, but not actually the real meaning, which is hidden in its culture and should be interpreted by culture....
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& H7 o: B/ y8 tI once attended a language training program, and it is that language always is a culture and the major barrier to a language learner being able to think in English is that, subconsciously, they are afraid of losing their identity, of their original culture.I think it may be true.
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9 X9 g/ s7 p& o2 m4 Y, c; l( @In conclusion, maybe it is a must that we need to expose ourselves more to the culture by physically and culturally involve more in local community activities, reading more boooks.......................

小老儿

can't agree more, but with both sides. bizarre, eh.  whether getting chinese together in a group is a good idea or not, it is still an idea. good or how good it will be really depends on efforts of  you guys, of everybody in the group.
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from the experience of my chinese learning processes, i believe reading is the No 1 approach to obtain the thorough understanding of the cultural stuff, the real meaning right behind the words. cause you can sit there, analysis it without sweat.  you don't need the guessing processes to be involved in you mind-researching for the real meaning like that we do all the time when talking to somebody else, even to our chinese.

the other way, No 2 graded by my judgement call, is writing down something everyday in the new language you want to learn. don't care its quality and quantity at first, but do comparae them after some interval of time. if someone hope to make a big jump in a thing, s/he must know how well or bad s/he is in it, know where or what is the problem. by comparison of your writings, it's easy to get there---to find out where you need to improve. and you don't need to repeat it 100 times.
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the next one is to involve in as many community activities as possible. this is not only the way you employed to sharpen you language edges, but also a touchstone of you efferts, and still the reason for you to have done so much there, to enjoy the language.
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wish you guys good luck. if god grant me another ten years in age, i'll be a member of your group.

九月

原帖由 august99 于 2008-7-25 23:39 发表
  I found my problem is basically the pronouiation and the intonation.   

! N* }% l8 T1 T: i! j5 Gsame here

irish

Dumber

原帖由 FuzzyBear 于 2008-7-25 21:39 发表
( B  g' k7 L/ [It's not a good idea to get Chinese together to talk in English. Sooner or later you will find you are actually talking in Chinese.

Agree

BOFA

Although only 3 persons, but we really had a great first gathering today. We talk in English throughout the whole period, and it is so great. Hopefully more will be interested in and join.